Bandwidth maintenance • s******r@s**.***.*****n.edu 19/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC I noticed that there haven't been many posts of late, so to keep up the bandwidth and avoid the rmgroup barbarians, here is an otherwise completely irrelevant post. I love reading novels by the Victorian writer Anthony Trollope. One of the things I love best is his quirky writing style; in the middle of a novel he stops to rant about why England is better than any other nation, or about how a young lady should behave, or about how he hates suspense novels, and that the reader should go right now and read the last chapter first. At odd moments he will drop his narrative and talk straight to the reader about the novel itself. Here is the first paragraph of the second chapter of _Dr._Thorne_, which I was chuckling over just this morning. >CHAPTER II: LONG, LONG AGO >As Dr. Thorne is our hero--or should I rather say my hero, a privilege >of selecting for themselves in this respect being left for all my >readers--and as Miss Mary Thorne is to be our heroine, a point on >which no choice whatsoever is left to anyone, it is necessary that >they shall be introduced and explained and described in a proper and >formal manner. I quite feel that an apology is due for beginning a >novel with two long dull chapters full of description. I am perfectly >aware of the danger of such a course. In so doing I sin against the >golden rule which requires us all to put our best foot foremost, the >wisdom of which is fully recognized by novelists, myself among the >number. It can hardly be expected that any one will consent to go >through with a fiction that offers so little of allurement in its >first pages; but twist it as I will I cannot do otherwise. I find >that I cannot make poor Mr. Gresham hem and haw and turn himself >uneasily in his arm-chair in a natural manner till I have said why he >is uneasy. I cannot bring in my doctor speaking his mind freely among >the bigwigs till I have explained that it is in accordance with his >usual character to do so. This is unartistic on my part, and shows >want of imagination as well as want of skill. Whether or not I can >atone for these faults by straightforward, simple, plain >storytelling--that, indeed, is very doubtful. Hee hee hee! Now back to your regularly scheduled newsgroup! -- K. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin L. Sterner | U. Penn. High Energy Physics | Smash the welfare state! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- • a****4@f******.********n.ca 26/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC Bruce Adelsohn (b****e@***.com) writes: > Farrell McGovern wrote:   >> p.s. Any Forumites goingto be at Con-Cept, March 22-24...Guests are Terry Pratchett, Bob   >> Eggleton and Hal Clement. I will be there, and Mandy Slater will be over from England. > That sounds appealing -- save that Mr. Pratchett is also going to be at > Lunacon, which is MUCH closer to many sf4mites' homes, March 15-17. > (Gee, does that imply the Pratchett North American Tour? And are > Eggleton and Clement the opeing acts? If so, that's a pretty good bill!) > [Answer: No, at Lunacon Mr. P gets to share the spotlight with one of > the few people as zany as his characters, "Auntie" Esther Friesner. Now > THAT'S comedy! ] But think! You could haunt Mr. Pratchett twice! Make him think you are following him! Oh, sorry. Stalking is illegal in Canada, and Quebec is still part of Canada... ttyl Farrell • s******r@s**.***.*****n.edu 20/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC In article <4gcnop$***@b******.**o.com>, s******j@**.com (Stefan E. Jones) writes: > I've seen this technique used by two SF writers: > * Fred Pohl, in one story, _Day Million_. > * Cordwainer Smith; the most direct example is the dizzying 4-5 page summary > in the beginning of _Norstilla_. > Pulling off second-person narrative like this is really tough. Yeah, the worst example I've seen is in _Let_The_Sea_Make_A_Noise_ by McDougall(?) or McDouglass(?) or something like that. In the introduction--all I could choke down--every other paragraph is in a different typeface, and it analyzes the previous paragraph in an extremely self-conscious manner, praising his own writing, commenting about what word-processing program he's using, and wondering whether this or that paragraph will help to sell the book. It's completely inappropriate for a history book about the North Pacific. Trollope, OTOH, uses POV switches to great effect. His "omniscient" narrative is very gossipy in style, so it isn't so jarring when he suddenly uses the "author" POV. He also switches his omniscience on and off in charming ways: he will insist, for example, that he is genuinely surprised when a character does something of which he does not approve, and then assure the reader that that character will get his come-uppance in the end. Neal Stephenson does a little second-person narration in _Snow_Crash_, as I remember. The one example that sticks in my mind is a phrase like "well, the rest is just a typical chase scene", or something like that. -- K. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin L. Sterner | U. Penn. High Energy Physics | Smash the welfare state! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- • riot nrrrd 22/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC s******r@s**.***.*****n.edu (Kevin Sterner) wrote: >Neal Stephenson does a little second-person narration in _Snow_Crash_, >as I remember. The one example that sticks in my mind is a phrase >like "well, the rest is just a typical chase scene", or something >like that. for my part, i found Snow Crash to be too self-conciously stylized. but i would LOVE to see the opening scene filmed! -- 73 de Dave Weingart KB2CWF "Can you find the Valium? mailto:p*******x@****.com Can you bring it soon? mailto:p*******x@e******.*********n.edu Lost Johnny's out there http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux Baying at the moon" -- Hawkwind • a****4@f******.********n.ca 24/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC riot nrrrd (p*******x@****.com) writes: > s******r@s**.***.*****n.edu (Kevin Sterner) wrote:   >>Neal Stephenson does a little second-person narration in _Snow_Crash_,   >>as I remember. The one example that sticks in my mind is a phrase   >>like "well, the rest is just a typical chase scene", or something   >>like that. > for my part, i found Snow Crash to be too self-conciously stylized. > but i would LOVE to see the opening scene filmed! I would love to see the whole thing filmed myself... One of the more amusing things at last year's Con-Cept in Montreal was a bunch of us theorizing on who would be a good Valentine Michael Smith, since it was bandied about at the con that Tom Hanks was interseted in doing Stranger in a Strange Land. Actually, more fun was had by guessing who would make a bad VMS...imagine Clint Eastwood..."Go ahead, make me soup!", or Sly Stallon "Murrph Armf wereshim punk!" ttyl Farrell p.s. Any Forumites goingto be at Con-Cept, March 22-24...Guests are Terry Pratchett, Bob Eggleton and Hal Clement. I will be there, and Mandy Slater will be over from England. • Bruce Adelsohn 26/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC Farrell McGovern wrote: > p.s. Any Forumites goingto be at Con-Cept, March 22-24...Guests are Terry Pratchett, Bob > Eggleton and Hal Clement. I will be there, and Mandy Slater will be over from England. That sounds appealing -- save that Mr. Pratchett is also going to be at Lunacon, which is MUCH closer to many sf4mites' homes, March 15-17. (Gee, does that imply the Pratchett North American Tour? And are Eggleton and Clement the opeing acts? If so, that's a pretty good bill!) [Answer: No, at Lunacon Mr. P gets to share the spotlight with one of the few people as zany as his characters, "Auntie" Esther Friesner. Now THAT'S comedy! ] - Bruce - b****e@***.com (until 3/31/96) b*****a@y*****.**.********x.net [List maintainer, please note!] • **@***.com 24/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC Farrell McGovern (a****4@F******.********n.CA) wrote: : p.s. Any Forumites goingto be at Con-Cept, March 22-24...Guests are Terry : Pratchett, Bob Eggleton and Hal Clement. I suppose Pratchett is combining trips with Lunacon the previous week? • a****4@f******.********n.ca 25/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC Louis Epstein (**@***.com) writes: > Farrell McGovern (a****4@F******.********n.CA) wrote: > : p.s. Any Forumites goingto be at Con-Cept, March 22-24...Guests are Terry > : Pratchett, Bob Eggleton and Hal Clement. > I suppose Pratchett is combining trips with Lunacon the previous week? I can only guess so. ttyl Farrell • riot nrrrd 26/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC **@***.com (Louis Epstein) wrote: >Farrell McGovern (a****4@F******.********n.CA) wrote: >: p.s. Any Forumites goingto be at Con-Cept, March 22-24...Guests are Terry >: Pratchett, Bob Eggleton and Hal Clement. >I suppose Pratchett is combining trips with Lunacon the previous week? one would assume so! hey, which forumites will be at lunacon? -- 73 de Dave Weingart KB2CWF "Can you find the Valium? mailto:p*******x@****.com Can you bring it soon? mailto:p*******x@e******.*********n.edu Lost Johnny's out there http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux Baying at the moon" -- Hawkwind • b*****n@c*****.**.******b.edu 26/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC riot nrrrd (p*******x@****.com) wrote: : **@***.com (Louis Epstein) wrote: : >Farrell McGovern (a****4@F******.********n.CA) wrote: : > : >: p.s. Any Forumites goingto be at Con-Cept, March 22-24...Guests are Terry : >: Pratchett, Bob Eggleton and Hal Clement. : > : >I suppose Pratchett is combining trips with Lunacon the previous week? : one would assume so! : hey, which forumites will be at lunacon? : -- : 73 de Dave Weingart KB2CWF "Can you find the Valium? : mailto:p*******x@****.com Can you bring it soon? : mailto:p*******x@e******.*********n.edu Lost Johnny's out there : http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux Baying at the moon" : -- Hawkwind Hi, Unless I'm mistaken, I believe our own Grace Hsu, president of D6 Gaming Club, is going. BRI (tm) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The supernatural's something that isn't supposed to happen, but it does happen." -- White Zombie, "Supercharger Heaven", 'til I know better. Brian Wrynn, Jr. b*****n@i*.******b.edu finger: b*****n@s*****b.edu Beelzebubba Neurovore Barkskin Visualize Whirled Peas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- • riot nrrrd 27/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC b*****n@c*****.**.******b.edu (Brian T Wrynn) wrote: >riot nrrrd (p*******x@****.com) wrote: >: **@***.com (Louis Epstein) wrote: >: >Farrell McGovern (a****4@F******.********n.CA) wrote: >: > >: >: p.s. Any Forumites goingto be at Con-Cept, March 22-24...Guests are Terry >: >: Pratchett, Bob Eggleton and Hal Clement. >: > >: >I suppose Pratchett is combining trips with Lunacon the previous week? >: one would assume so! >: hey, which forumites will be at lunacon? >: -- >: 73 de Dave Weingart KB2CWF "Can you find the Valium? >: mailto:p*******x@****.com Can you bring it soon? >: mailto:p*******x@e******.*********n.edu Lost Johnny's out there >: http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux Baying at the moon" >: -- Hawkwind >Hi, > Unless I'm mistaken, I believe our own Grace Hsu, president of D6 Gaming >Club, is going. ack! gamers! (blast from the past, THAT one is :) ) -- 73 de Dave Weingart KB2CWF "Can you find the Valium? mailto:p*******x@****.com Can you bring it soon? mailto:p*******x@e******.*********n.edu Lost Johnny's out there http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux Baying at the moon" -- Hawkwind • s******j@**.com 20/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC I've seen this technique used by two SF writers: * Fred Pohl, in one story, _Day Million_. * Cordwainer Smith; the most direct example is the dizzying 4-5 page summary in the beginning of _Norstilla_. Pulling off second-person narrative like this is really tough. • d********t@***.com 21/02/1996 00:00:000 UTC You know, the sad thing about that post? The movie version of "Dr. Thorne," with Micheal Caine (and I think one of the Redgraves) wasn't an improvement. --Danny-- Is this the cool part of Dave's Sig, or what?